ANOTHER LOOK AT HOW RACIAL DISCRIMINATION IMPACTS AMERICAN SOCIETY.

THIS TIME, AND A HOUSING POLICY.

RICHARD ROTHSTEIN BELIEVES THAT A GENERATION OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS HAVE SEVERELY RESTRICTED THE WEALTH AND SUCCESS OF AFRICAN- AMERICANS.

IN HIS LATEST BOOK, JUST ACTION, HERE IT EXPLORES HOW LOCAL COMMUNITIES CAN UNDO DECADES OF SEGREGATION.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

RICHARD AND LEAH ROTHSTEIN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU, MR. ROTHSTEIN.

IN YOUR LAST BOOK YOU ARE GOOD ARGUED THAT HOUSING SEGREGATION IS DEEPLY IMPORTANT AND YOU ARGUED THAT IT IS NOT ACCIDENTAL.

IT IS REALLY A MATTER OF LAW AND CUSTOM IN THE UNITED STATES FOR A VERY LONG TIME.

AS BRIEFLY AS YOU CAN, WOULD YOU DESCRIBE WHY IT IS SO IMPORTANT, AND WHY YOU SAY IT IS NOT ACCIDENTAL?

>> THE COLOR OF LAW, MY PREVIOUS BOOK, DEMOLISH THE MYTH OF DE FACTO SEGREGATION, SOMETHING WE ALL THOUGHT EXISTED.

THE FACT THAT YOU SAID THAT THE FACT THAT EVERY METROPOLITAN AREA IS RACIALLY SEGREGATED HAPPENS EITHER BY ACCIDENT OR BECAUSE OF PRIVATE DISCRIMINATION OR THE BIGOTRY OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOMEOWNERS -- IT TURNS OUT THAT THE REASON WE'RE SEGREGATED --WE HAVE AN APARTHEID SOCIETY.

WE WERE SEGREGATED BY RACIALLY EXPLICIT FEDERAL, STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT POLICY.

IN THE MID-20TH CENTURY, SOMEWHAT BEFORE AND SOMEWHAT AFTER, THAT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

WHEN THE FEDERAL HOUSING ADMINISTRATION AND VETERANS ADMINISTRATION DECIDED TO ORGANIZE THE ENTIRE WHITE WORKING AND MIDDLE-CLASS POPULATION INTO SINGLE-FAMILY HOUSE AND ALL FLIGHT SUBURBS, WHITE FAMILIES WHO WERE SUBSIDIZED TO DO THIS --THESE WERE NOT RICH PEOPLE.

THESE WERE RETURNING WAR VETERANS --WHITE FAMILIES GAINED WEALTH BECAUSE THOSE HOMES APPRECIATED IN VALUE OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF GENERATIONS.

THEY USE THAT WEALTH TO SEND THEIR CHILDREN TO COLLEGE.

THEY USED IT TO TAKE CARE OF TEMPORARY EMERGENCIES.

THEY USED IT TO SUBSIDIZE THEIR EMPLOYMENTS AND THEY USED IT TO BEQUEATH WEALTH TO THEIR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.

WHO THEN HAD DOWNPAYMENTS FOR THEIR OWN HOMES.

THE RESULT OF THE FACT THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS WERE PROHIBITED BY WRITTEN FEDERAL POLICY, FROM PARTICIPATING IN THE SUBSIDY PROGRAM, ALTHOUGH AFRICAN-AMERICAN INCOMES ARE ABOUT 60% OF WHITE INCOMES, AFRICAN-AMERICAN WEALTH IS ONLY ABOUT 5% OF WHITE WEALTH.

THIS WEALTH GAP UNDERLIES THE MOST SERIOUS SOCIAL PROBLEMS IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY.

IT UNDERLIES THE CONCENTRATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN LOWER INCOME COMMUNITIES WHERE SCHOOLS ARE LESS WELL RESOURCED.

IT UNDERLIES THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE POOR HEALTH BECAUSE OF LIVING IN MORE POLLUTED AND MORE DANGEROUS COMMUNITIES AND EVEN THE POLICE VIOLENCE WE HAVE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO IN THE LAST THREE YEARS BECAUSE OF YOU CONCENTRATE DISADVANTAGED IN NEIGHBORHOODS IT'S INEVITABLE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE CONFRONTATIONS.

SO, THESE UNCONSTITUTIONAL POLICIES UNDERLIE OUR APARTHEID SYSTEMS AND REQUIRE US TO REMEDY THEM.

>> HOW DOES JUST ACTION CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO READ COLOR OF LAW, MYSELF INCLUDED AND I'VE SEEN MY DAD LECTURE ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE MOVED AND OVERWHELMED BY THE COMPREHENSIVE HISTORY LAID OUT IN HOW INTENTIONAL IT WAS IN THE CREATION OF OUR SEGREGATED COMMUNITIES, AND I ASKED THEM AFTER ONE OF THE LECTURES, YOU KNOW, NOW THAT WE HAVE REAWAKENED TO THIS HISTORY, WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT IT NOW?

HOW CAN WE BEGIN TO UNDO IT AND CHALLENGE THESE DECADES OF POLICIES, THE ENTRENCHED LIVING PATTERNS WE ARE SO USED TO NOW.

AND SO, HE CHALLENGED ME TO HELP THEM ANSWER THAT QUESTION BY WRITING THIS BOOK AND IN THIS BOOK, WE HELP ANSWER THAT QUESTION FOR PEOPLE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY LOOKING FOR WAYS TO TAKE ACTION AND BEGIN TO REDRESS SEGREGATION.

WE REALLY FOCAL ON LOCAL EFFORT, WHAT CAN BE DONE IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

WE UNDERSTAND FEDERAL POLICY CHANGE WILL NEED TO BE DONE EVENTUALLY BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE FEDERAL WILL TO MAKE THESE CHANGES NATIONWIDE BUT WE CAN BUILD THAT WELL IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND THERE IS ACTUALLY A LOT THAT IS UNDER LOCAL CONTROL THAT CAN GO A LONG WAY TOWARD UNDOING SEGREGATION, CHALLENGING AND REMEDYING THE HARMS THAT OF COME FROM IT.

>> HOW IS SEGREGATION SO BIG?

PEOPLE LIVE IN THEIR HOUSES FOR 30 YEARS, 50 YEARS --IT JUST SEEMS SO BIG.

LET ME START BY ASKING YOU THIS.

WHEN YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THIS -- HOW DO YOU TACKLE THIS, DID YOU FIND IT DAUNTING YOURSELF?

>> I DID AT THE BEGINNING.

I HAVE BEEN A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER AND ACTIVIST I HAVE WORKED IN HOUSING POLICY SO I HAVE WORKED ON THESE ISSUES A LOT AND I DID NOT KNOW HOW TO FIX THIS PROBLEM WHEN I STARTED THE PROJECT WITH MY DAD.

I WAS OVERWHELMED BY JUST THE ENORMITY OF THE ISSUE.

PEOPLE LIVE IN THE SAME PLACE FOR A LONG TIME.

THE HISTORY MY DAD LAID OUT SHOWS US HOW THE WEALTH GAP BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES CREATED THROUGH HOUSING POLICY, SO THERE IS JUST SO MUCH TO UNDO.

IT DID FEEL OVERWHELMING AND RATHER DAUNTING BUT WE OUTLINE DOZENS OF POLICIES AND STRATEGIES THAT A LOCAL ACTIVIST GROUP COULD TAKE ON TO BEGIN TO REDRESS SEGREGATION IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND FOR EVERY ONE OF THOSE POLICIES, WE GIVE AN EXAMPLE FROM A LOCAL COMMUNITY GROUP IN A COUNTRY THAT IS WORKING ON THIS ISSUE OR THAT HAS SUCCESSFULLY IMPLEMENTED THIS POLICY CHANGE.

I ENDED THIS PROJECT AND WRITING THIS BOOK FEELING VERY HOPEFUL THAT THERE IS A LOT THAT CAN BE DONE.

IT IS NOT ONE POLICY OR ONE CHANGE THAT IS GOING TO FIX ALL OF THIS, BUT IT IS A LOT OF SMALL PIECES THAT WILL BEGIN TO UNDO DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF SEGREGATION AND SEGREGATION'S EFFECT.

ALL OF THESE SMALL PIECES TOGETHER HAVE A HUGE IMPACT.

>> MR. ROTHSTEIN, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU THE SAME QUESTION.

AS YOU WERE RESEARCHING THIS BOOK, DID YOU FEEL A SENSE OF HOPE THIS COULD BE REDRESSED?

>> VERY HOPEFUL, BECAUSE AS LONG AS WE THOUGHT IT HAPPENED BY ACCIDENT IT WAS EASY TO HAPPENED BY ACCIDENT.

ONCE WE UNDERSTOOD IT WAS CREATED BY EXPLICIT PUBLIC POLICY, EXPLICIT PUBLIC POLICIES CAN FIX IT AND AS LEAH SAID, THERE ARE SO MANY LOCAL POLICIES THAT SUSTAIN, REINFORCE AND PERPETUATE SEGREGATION.

IT WAS CREATED NATIONALLY BUT THE SUSTENANCE IS LOCAL.

EVERY METROPOLITAN AREA IN THIS COUNTRY, AFRICAN-AMERICAN HOMEOWNERS PAY PROPERTY TAX AT A HIGHER RATE THAN WHITE HOMEOWNERS DO SO AFRICAN- AMERICANS HAVE BEEN PAYING TAXES AT AN ASSESSED VALUE CLOSE TO THE MARKET VALUE AND WHITE HOMEOWNERS ARE PAYING TAXES FAR BELOW THE ASSESSED MARKET VALUE.

THIS IS A PURELY LOCAL ISSUE, BUT EVERY ONE OF THE BLACK HOMEOWNERS IN THOSE COMMUNITIES IS OWED REFUNDS FOR THEIR EXCESSIVE TAXATION.

AND ACTIVIST A GROUP COULD SUCCESSFUL BUT THEY COULD MAKE PROGRESS IN THEIR ART DOZENS OF POLICIES ACCESSIBLE AT A LOCAL LEVEL BY LOCAL GROUPS IF THEY SIMPLY MOBILIZE TO TAKE ACTION TO ACHIEVE THEM AND THE REASON WE WROTE THIS BOOK IS BECAUSE 20 MILLION AMERICANS PARTICIPATE IN A BLACK LIVES MATTER DEMONSTRATION IN THE AFTERMATH OF GEORGE FLOYD'S MURDER AND MOST OF THEM WENT HOME AND PUT SIGNS ON THEIR LAWNS SAYING BLACK LIVES MATTER AND THAT WAS THE END OF IT, BUT THIS IS A BASE OF SUPPORT FOR A PRETTY LARGE AND SIGNIFICANT CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

TWO PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT TO DO NEXT, WE SAY ANYTHING YOU DO, ANYONE OF THESE POLICIES IS A BEGINNING.

START SOMEWHERE.

>> YOU WRITE IN THE BOOK A LOT ABOUT POLICY AND PRACTICES THAT ARE, ON THEIR FACE, RACE NEUTRAL, BUT ACTUALLY YIELD DISPARATE CAN YOU TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT?

I'M THINKING MAYBE ABOUT CREDIT SCORING, FOR EXAMPLE.

>> WHEN WE HAVE AN UNEQUAL SOCIETY AND YOU APPLY A RACE NEUTRAL POLICY ACROSS THE BOARD TO EVERYBODY, IT IS GOING TO HAVE UNEQUAL EFFECTS, SO THE EXAMPLE YOU BROUGHT UP, CREDIT SCORING IS A RACE NEUTRAL POLICY.

IT'S NOT DISCRIMINATORY AND INTENT TEND IT IS IN EFFECT.

IT IS IN EFFECT BECAUSE THE CREDIT SCORE SYSTEM IS SUPPOSED TO BE AN OBJECTIVE RATING OF YOUR FUTURE LIKELIHOOD OF REPAYING A DEBT AND IT BASES THAT RATING ON YOUR FINANCIAL HISTORY, BUT IT ONLY USES A CERTAIN TYPE OF FINANCIAL HISTORY TO MAKE THAT RATING AND IT IS A TYPE OF FINANCIAL HISTORY THAT WHITES ARE FAR MORE LIKELY TO HAVE THAN AFRICAN-AMERICANS, SO IF YOU ARE APPLYING FOR A MORTGAGE AND LOOKING AT YOUR CREDIT SCORE AND YOU HAVE HAD A MORTGAGE IN THE PAST, THAT WILL FACTOR INTO YOUR CREDIT SCORE.

BUT, IF YOU HAVE NEVER OWNED A HOME IN THE PAST AND YOU HAVE BEEN A RENTER YOUR WHOLE LIFE WHICH AFRICAN-AMERICANS APPLYING FOR A MORTGAGE ARE MORE LIKELY TO NEVER HAVE OWNED A HOME BEFORE AND EVEN IF YOU HAVE NEVER MISSED A RENT PAYMENT IN YOUR LIFE, THAT FINANCIAL HISTORY IS NOT FACTORED INTO YOUR CREDIT SCORE SO AS A RESULT, AFRICAN- AMERICANS ARE DISADVANTAGED IN THE CREDIT SCORING SYSTEM MAKES IT HARDER FOR THEM TO BUY THEIR FIRST HOME AND HARD TO GET A HIGH ENOUGH CREDIT SCORE TO GET A GOOD INTEREST RATE ON THAT MORTGAGE, SO THE RESULT WE SEE NOW IS ABOUT A THIRD OF AFRICAN- AMERICANS HAVE NO CREDIT SCORE AT ALL COMPARED TO 17% OF WHITES AND OF THOSE WITH CREDIT SCORES, 20% OF AFRICAN- AMERICANS HAVE A CREDIT SCORE HIGH ENOUGH FOR A MORTGAGE COMPARED TO HALF OF WHITES.

>> WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD ARGUE, THAT IS JUST COMMON SENSE?

LENDERS SHOULD HAVE SOME WAY OF KNOWING WHETHER YOU ARE A GOOD BET TO LEND MONEY OR NOT.

>> WE ARE NOT ADVOCATING GETTING RID OF CREDIT SCORES.

WE NEED A CREDIT SCORE SO A LENDER KNOWS WHO TO LEND MONEY TO, BUT THOSE CREDIT SCORES CAN TAKE INTO ACCOUNT RENTAL PAYMENT HISTORY JUST AS EASILY AS THEY CAN MORTGAGE PAYMENT HISTORY AND THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO EQUALIZING THE SYSTEM AND NOT HAVING A DISPARATE IMPACT ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND LOCAL BANK BRANCHES AND CREDIT UNIONS COULD START TO DO THAT INDIVIDUALLY, EVEN IF THE NATIONAL CREDIT SCORING SYSTEM IS NOT ADJUSTED YET.

THEY COULD START FACTORING IN RENTAL PAYMENT HISTORY IN ORDER TO DETERMINE SOMEONE'S CREDIT WORTHINESS, AND THAT WOULD GO A LONG WAY TO OPENING UP ACCESS TO CREDIT.

>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS YOU CAME OVER THE COURSE OF RESEARCHING THIS BOOK THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU?

>> WE DESCRIBE SO MANY SOLUTIONS THAT IT IS REALLY JUST A QUESTION OF WHERE YOU START.

IN THE BOOK, JUST ACTION, WE HAVE TWO PHOTOGRAPHS OF COMMUNITY GROUPS, ONE IN CALIFORNIA, ONE IN NEW YORK, THAT WERE PICKETING BANKS.

IT TURNS OUT THAT THOSE BANKS WERE MAKING MORTGAGES TO APARTMENT DEVELOPERS, MULTIUNIT APARTMENTS, AND THE MORTGAGES PENCILED OUT ONLY IF THOSE INCOME STREAM THAN RESIDENT RENTS COULD AFFORD.

IN OTHER WORDS, BANKS WERE BEING GUARANTEED THAT THEY WOULD GENTRIFY THOSE BUILDINGS BY EVICTING CURRENT TENANTS AND CHARGING HIGHER RENT.

COMMUNITY PRESSURE CAN MAKE SURE AS THOSE TWO DEMONSTRATIONS THAT WE PHOTOGRAPHED IN THIS BOOK --CAN MAKE SURE THEY DON'T ISSUE MORTGAGES TO BORROWERS WHOSE FINANCES WOULD ONLY QUALIFY THEM FOR A MORTGAGE IF THEY EVICTED PRESENT TENANTS AND TAKEN HIGHER-PAYING ONES.

>> I TAKE LEAH'S POINT THAT A LOT OF THESE ARE LOCAL INITIATIVES, BUT I AM CURIOUS ABOUT YOUR SENSE OF WHETHER THERE REALLY IS AN APPETITE FOR THESE KINDS OF INITIATIVES.

GIVEN HOW IT SEEMS TO PUSH THESE DEEP, EMOTIONAL BUTTONS PEOPLE HAVE ABOUT WHERE THEY LIVE, THEY LIVE, -- >> THERE IS AN ENORMOUS APPETITE FOR THIS.

IF THEY FORM COMMITTEES TO BEGIN TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES, AND WE HAVE MANY EXAMPLES IN JUST ACTION, OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE STARTED TO DO THIS, WE CAN IDENTIFY THE BANKS, THE REALTORS, THE DEVELOPERS WHO CREATED SEGREGATION UNDER THE AGES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN PARTICULAR COMMUNITIES, AND THOSE BANKS, THOSE REALTORS, THOSE DEVELOPERS SHOULD BE THE SUBJECT OF ACTIONS AND CAMPAIGNS TO GET THEM TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE REDRESS OF SEGREGATION THEY HAVE CREATED.

I DON'T FEAR THAT THERE IS NO APPETITE FOR THIS.

MY PREVIOUS BOOK, AS YOU MENTIONED, THE COLOR OF LAW, I DON'T MEAN TO BOAST, BUT IT SOLD 1 MILLION COPIES.

LEAH, A FEW WEEKS AGO, WROTE A COLUMN ABOUT A VERY ELITE SUBURBAN COMMUNITY THAT ORGANIZED BECAUSE THEY WANTED DIVERSITY.

THEY WANTED TO INCLUDE OTHER PEOPLE IN THEIR COMMUNITY.

THEY ORGANIZED AND THEY DEFEATED A REFERENDUM IN THAT COMMUNITY THAT WOULD HAVE PROHIBITED MODIFYING SINGLE- FAMILY ZONING.

IF PEOPLE ORGANIZE, THEY CAN WIN SUCCESSES.

THEY WON'T WIN SUCCESSES ALL THE TIME BUT SMALL VICTORIES WILL LEAD TO LARGER ONES AND I AM CONFIDENT THAT IF PEOPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF SOME OF THESE IDEAS WE HAVE THROWN OUT, WE WILL BEGIN TO SEE A CASCADING MOVEMENT TO REDRESS SEGREGATION.

>> WHY SHOULD PEOPLE WHO HAVE BENEFITED FROM THESE SYSTEMS WANT TO CHANGE THEM?

>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF REASONS.

THIS SCRIPT THAT I WROTE ABOUT, THEY STARTED BY LEARNING ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THEIR OWN COMMUNITY AND HOW IT CAME TO BE SEGREGATED, SO THEY DEVELOPED A WORKSHOP THAT THEY DID AROUND THE REGION BASED ON THE COLOR OF LAW AND APPLYING IT SPECIFICALLY TO THEIR CITY, AND IDENTIFY THE POLICIES THAT CREATED SEGREGATION IN THAT REGION.

I THINK PART OF DOING THAT, THAT KIND OF EDUCATION HAS OPENED UP PEOPLE'S EYES TO WHAT THEY THOUGHT WAS JUST NORMAL, WHAT THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE ENTITLED TO IN THAT COMMUNITY WAS INTENTIONALLY CREATED BY PROHIBITING AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND OTHERS FROM LIVING THERE, AND ONCE THEY RECONCILED WITH THAT HISTORY, THEY REALIZE THAT IS NOT THE KIND OF COMMUNITY THEY WANTED TO LIVE IN, THAT THEY ACTUALLY VALUED INCLUSION AND VALUE DIVERSITY SO THEY WANTED TO WORK TOWARD THAT.

SO, THAT IS THE BASIS OF THAT GROUP.

THEN, WHEN THEY STARTED WORKING ON DEFEATING THE BALLOT MEASURE, THEY REALIZED THE EXCLUSIVITY OF THIS COMMUNITY HURT THEM, HURT THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, AS WELL.

THEIR CHILDREN COULD NOT AFFORD TO MOVE BACK HOME.

THE BALLOT MEASURE WAS IN RESPONSE TO SOME AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO TEACHERS THAT WAS PROPOSED IN THE TOWN BECAUSE 30% OF TEACHERS IN THIS TOWN LEFT THEIR POSITIONS EVERY YEAR BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT AFFORD TO LIVE ANYWHERE NEAR THE SCHOOLS THAT THEY TAUGHT IN.

THEIR FAVORITE CAFES WERE EMPLOYEES CANNOT FIND ANYWHERE NEAR THERE TO LIVE ON A MINIMUM WAGE SALARY, SO THEY SAW HOW THE EXCLUSIVITY OF THEIR COMMUNITY KEEPING THE HOME PRICES HIGH BY MAINTAINING SINGLE-FAMILY ONLY ZONING WAS HURTING THEM, AS WELL, AND SO THE VALUES THEY DEVELOPED AND IDENTIFIED THROUGH LEARNING ABOUT THEIR HISTORY, ALONG WITH THE IMPACT THAT THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS AND EXCLUSIVITY OF THEIR COMMUNITY WAS HAVING ON THEM PERSONALLY, HELP THEM DEVELOP A STRONG COMMUNITY GROUP THAT DEFEATED THE BALLOT MEASURE AND THEY ARE GOING ON TO WORK ON HOUSING POLICY IN THE FUTURE.

>> RICHARD, BEFORE WE LET YOU GO, THIS WORK REALLY DOES FOCUS ON THE EXPERIENCE --THE HISTORICAL EXPERIENCE OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN THE UNITED STATES, AND HOW THAT EXPERIENCE TRANSLATES TO TODAY'S CURRENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

WHY IS THAT FOCUS ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS, AND WHY SHOULD PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, PARTICULARLY LATINO AMERICANS, LATIN AMERICANS, ASIAN AMERICANS, WHO PERHAPS ARRIVED LATER IN THIS COUNTRY, CARE ABOUT THIS?

>> THE REASON THEY SHOULD CARE ABOUT THIS IS BECAUSE WE ARE ALL AMERICANS AND OUR CONSTITUTION WAS VIOLATED BY THE SEGREGATION OF AFRICAN- AMERICANS.

THE POLICIES WE DESCRIBE WERE FOCUSED ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

IT WAS NOT A LARGE HISPANIC MIGRATION AT THE TIME THESE POLICIES WERE ENACTED.

WE HAVE ENORMOUS ECONOMIC INEQUALITY IN THIS COUNTRY TODAY.

THERE ARE MANY POLICIES WE NEED TO FOLLOW THAT WOULD BENEFIT LOW INCOME AND MODERATE INCOME RECENT IMMIGRANTS.

THAT IS A RECENT ISSUE FROM OUR OBLIGATION TO REMEDY THE UNCONSTITUTIONAL SEGREGATION OF AFRICAN-AMERICANS, THE DISCRIMINATION OF THE EXPLOSION BLACK FAMILIES HAVE FACED IN THIS COUNTRY IS FAR MORE EXTREME, MORE VIOLENT, MORE OPPRESSIVE THAN WHAT WAS EXPERIENCED BY OTHER GROUPS, EVEN THOUGH THOSE OTHER GROUPS DID EXPERIENCE DISCRIMINATION, AS WELL, BUT THEY'RE NOT COMPARABLE IN DIFFERENT PROBLEMS REQUIRE DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS.

WHAT WE SAY IN OUR WRITING IS THAT RACE SPECIFIC CRIMES REQUIRE RACE SPECIFIC SOLUTIONS AND THAT IS THE REASON WE ARE FOCUSED IN THIS BOOK, ON AFRICAN-AMERICANS.

IT DOES NOT MEAN THERE ARE NOT OTHER PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

>> THANK YOU.